Crimp Bread

[Del Cecchi]

I got some (used) crimp bread pans. What sort of bread recipe does one use
in these? The only time I have eaten this was from the local grocery store
and it was a soft bread, might have been flavored. At christmas they would
dye the dough red and green and make bicolor loaves. I'm also wondering how
to scale the dough to have the appropriate amount. I'm not used to baking
in closed containers.

Is there a density rule of thumb? grams/cc, lbs/cubic foot, whatever?

del cecchi

[Dick Margulis]

Del,

I think you're describing what we have generally referred to as Pullman
pans in this group.

See if you can find what you're looking for here:

http://tinyurl.com/ypkre

Dick

Post by Del Cecchi
I got some (used) crimp bread pans. What sort of bread recipe does one use
in these? The only time I have eaten this was from the local grocery store
and it was a soft bread, might have been flavored. At christmas they would
dye the dough red and green and make bicolor loaves. I'm also wondering how
to scale the dough to have the appropriate amount. I'm not used to baking
in closed containers.
Is there a density rule of thumb? grams/cc, lbs/cubic foot, whatever?
del cecchi

[Del Cecchi]

I have the pans. They are cylindrical, about 5 inches in diameter by maybe
16 inches long, in a unit of 4 linked together. The sides are wavy, with
the waves perpendicular to the long axis. Chicago Metallic has them in
their commercial catalog. On page 6, although these are smaller than I
recall mine being. The CM ones are 3.75 by 10 inches.

Post by Dick Margulis
Del,
I think you're describing what we have generally referred to as Pullman
pans in this group.
http://tinyurl.com/ypkre
Dick

Post by Del Cecchi
I got some (used) crimp bread pans. What sort of bread recipe does one use
in these? The only time I have eaten this was from the local grocery store
and it was a soft bread, might have been flavored. At christmas they would
dye the dough red and green and make bicolor loaves. I'm also wondering how
to scale the dough to have the appropriate amount. I'm not used to baking
in closed containers.
Is there a density rule of thumb? grams/cc, lbs/cubic foot, whatever?
del cecchi

[Roy Basan]

Post by Del Cecchi
Is there a density rule of thumb? grams/cc, lbs/cubic foot, whatever?
del cecchi

Well the rule for pullman or any other covered loaf is that the
scaling weight is obtained by getting first the pan volume by measuing
the dimensions :
and computing, lenght x width x depth.
Basing on the computed pan volume you use a factor of 4.5-5.0 and use
that to divide the pan volume. Presto that is your estimated dough
scaling weight.
I put a variable factor as many household flours have variable gluten
content but in the baking industry the covered loaves dough weight is
scaled based on the factor of 5.0 and 4.5 for the open top pans.
BTW that is based on white flour and not on the wholemeal or blends
which are heavier .
Roy

[Dick Margulis]

Roy,

Your meaning is a little unclear. Could you give an example worked out
in units?

For example, if a pullman is 10 cm x 10 cm x 30 cm (guessing from
memory), that's 3,000 cc. If I divide by 5 g/cc, I get 600 g. If I
divide by 4.5 g/cc instead, I get 667 g. That tells me I am looking for
a scaling weight somewhere in the 600 to 667 g range.

Is that what you mean? Or are you using different units?

Thanks,

Dick


PS to Del: Whatever it turns out that Roy meant, if you end up with a
range like the above, you'll need to do some testing with various
formulas and flours to get a feel for which end of the range you should
be heading for. It is often desirable for pullman bread to be fairly
fine-grained and a little denser than ordinary sandwich bread, as this
makes it easier to work with for things like finger sandwiches (the
example you cited at the beginning of this thread). So that would
suggest going to the higher end of the scaling range. But you'll need to
test that hypothesis yourself.

Post by Roy Basan

Post by Del Cecchi
Is there a density rule of thumb? grams/cc, lbs/cubic foot, whatever?
del cecchi

Well the rule for pullman or any other covered loaf is that the
scaling weight is obtained by getting first the pan volume by measuing
and computing, lenght x width x depth.
Basing on the computed pan volume you use a factor of 4.5-5.0 and use
that to divide the pan volume. Presto that is your estimated dough
scaling weight.
I put a variable factor as many household flours have variable gluten
content but in the baking industry the covered loaves dough weight is
scaled based on the factor of 5.0 and 4.5 for the open top pans.
BTW that is based on white flour and not on the wholemeal or blends
which are heavier .
Roy

[Del Cecchi]

You would be dividing by 5 cc/gram, or a specific gravity of 0.2 (grams/cc).
That is the information I am looking for, but the units are a little
unclear. :-)

del

Post by Dick Margulis
Roy,
Your meaning is a little unclear. Could you give an example worked out
in units?
For example, if a pullman is 10 cm x 10 cm x 30 cm (guessing from
memory), that's 3,000 cc. If I divide by 5 g/cc, I get 600 g. If I
divide by 4.5 g/cc instead, I get 667 g. That tells me I am looking for
a scaling weight somewhere in the 600 to 667 g range.
Is that what you mean? Or are you using different units?
Thanks,
Dick
PS to Del: Whatever it turns out that Roy meant, if you end up with a
range like the above, you'll need to do some testing with various
formulas and flours to get a feel for which end of the range you should
be heading for. It is often desirable for pullman bread to be fairly
fine-grained and a little denser than ordinary sandwich bread, as this
makes it easier to work with for things like finger sandwiches (the
example you cited at the beginning of this thread). So that would
suggest going to the higher end of the scaling range. But you'll need to
test that hypothesis yourself.

Post by Roy Basan

Post by Del Cecchi
Is there a density rule of thumb? grams/cc, lbs/cubic foot, whatever?
del cecchi

Well the rule for pullman or any other covered loaf is that the
scaling weight is obtained by getting first the pan volume by measuing
and computing, lenght x width x depth.
Basing on the computed pan volume you use a factor of 4.5-5.0 and use
that to divide the pan volume. Presto that is your estimated dough
scaling weight.
I put a variable factor as many household flours have variable gluten
content but in the baking industry the covered loaves dough weight is
scaled based on the factor of 5.0 and 4.5 for the open top pans.
BTW that is based on white flour and not on the wholemeal or blends
which are heavier .
Roy

[Dick Margulis]

Del,

First, thanks for catching my unintentional inversion of the unit.
Shoulda had that cup of coffee before I tried that one ;-)

Second, it is now clear that you are not talking about a pullman pan.
I've used the pans you describe (for a cinnamon swirl bread), but never
heard them called crimp pans. In fact, I recall a thread here a few
years ago in which people threw out a variety of names for them, but not
with much confidence that anyone else had ever called them by the same name.

In any case, once we get Roy to confirm what units he had in mind, you
can throw pi into the formula (but don't throw pie into the pans, of
course), and work out the scaling weight yourself.

It was too many years ago for me to remember what we scaled the cinnamon
bread at.

Dick

Post by Del Cecchi
You would be dividing by 5 cc/gram, or a specific gravity of 0.2 (grams/cc).
That is the information I am looking for, but the units are a little
unclear. :-)
del

Post by Dick Margulis
Roy,
Your meaning is a little unclear. Could you give an example worked out
in units?
For example, if a pullman is 10 cm x 10 cm x 30 cm (guessing from
memory), that's 3,000 cc. If I divide by 5 g/cc, I get 600 g. If I
divide by 4.5 g/cc instead, I get 667 g. That tells me I am looking for
a scaling weight somewhere in the 600 to 667 g range.
Is that what you mean? Or are you using different units?
Thanks,
Dick
PS to Del: Whatever it turns out that Roy meant, if you end up with a
range like the above, you'll need to do some testing with various
formulas and flours to get a feel for which end of the range you should
be heading for. It is often desirable for pullman bread to be fairly
fine-grained and a little denser than ordinary sandwich bread, as this
makes it easier to work with for things like finger sandwiches (the
example you cited at the beginning of this thread). So that would
suggest going to the higher end of the scaling range. But you'll need to
test that hypothesis yourself.

Post by Roy Basan

Post by Del Cecchi
Is there a density rule of thumb? grams/cc, lbs/cubic foot, whatever?
del cecchi

Well the rule for pullman or any other covered loaf is that the
scaling weight is obtained by getting first the pan volume by measuing
and computing, lenght x width x depth.
Basing on the computed pan volume you use a factor of 4.5-5.0 and use
that to divide the pan volume. Presto that is your estimated dough
scaling weight.
I put a variable factor as many household flours have variable gluten
content but in the baking industry the covered loaves dough weight is
scaled based on the factor of 5.0 and 4.5 for the open top pans.
BTW that is based on white flour and not on the wholemeal or blends
which are heavier .
Roy

[Roy Basan]

Post by Dick Margulis
Roy,
Your meaning is a little unclear. Could you give an example worked out
in units?
For example, if a pullman is 10 cm x 10 cm x 30 cm (guessing from
memory), that's 3,000 cc. If I divide by 5 g/cc, I get 600 g. If I
divide by 4.5 g/cc instead, I get 667 g. That tells me I am looking for
a scaling weight somewhere in the 600 to 667 g range.
Is that what you mean? Or are you using different units?
Thanks,

Dick I am telling about the pullman pans and the open top loaf
bread.
You calculation was correct..If you use a covered pans of your given
volume then the 600 grams is for pullman and the 667 is for the open
top loaf.
I just provided a range because flours for home use is so variable and
the system of baking as practiced at home is not standardized either
some dough could be undermixed or underkneaded and that could affect
dough volume also, That factor is used by the baking industry in
calculating desired scaling weight. specific for such pans. both open
top and closed loaf pans.
BTW, I have not tried that formula for a cylindrical pan so I cannot
confim if that works out in breadbaking practice..Theortically it
will.But that needs to be proven by actual trials.
I only
Roy
I h

Post by Dick Margulis
PS to Del: Whatever it turns out that Roy meant, if you end up with a
range like the above, you'll need to do some testing with various
formulas and flours to get a feel for which end of the range you should
be heading for. It is often desirable for pullman bread to be fairly
fine-grained and a little denser than ordinary sandwich bread, as this
makes it easier to work with for things like finger sandwiches (the
example you cited at the beginning of this thread). So that would
suggest going to the higher end of the scaling range. But you'll need to
test that hypothesis yourself.

Post by Roy Basan

Post by Del Cecchi
Is there a density rule of thumb? grams/cc, lbs/cubic foot, whatever?
del cecchi

Well the rule for pullman or any other covered loaf is that the
scaling weight is obtained by getting first the pan volume by measuing
and computing, lenght x width x depth.
Basing on the computed pan volume you use a factor of 4.5-5.0 and use
that to divide the pan volume. Presto that is your estimated dough
scaling weight.
I put a variable factor as many household flours have variable gluten
content but in the baking industry the covered loaves dough weight is
scaled based on the factor of 5.0 and 4.5 for the open top pans.
BTW that is based on white flour and not on the wholemeal or blends
which are heavier .
Roy